Charlie as Em Ahead of their show PHONEY at The Bread & Roses Theatre this September, we spoke with Finn and Charlie about their upcoming show.
What inspired you to create "PHONEY"? Was there a particular event or personal experience that sparked the idea?
The idea for PHONEY was sparked by Finn hearing Charlie talk about their experiences with phone sex work, and thinking about how he would feel doing that work as a trans man. From that, the idea of creating a play about a trans man doing phone sex became very stuck in Finn’s mind, and he sat on the idea for a couple of years before finding the right time, and the perfect co-creator (which of course had to be Charlie!)
Can you tell us more about the characters Raphie and Em? How did you develop their personalities and their dynamic?
We are completely unashamed to say that Raphie and Em are based on our own personalities, and they are absolutely the most exaggerated (and potentially the worst!) versions of ourselves. As Charlie once said: “our friendship is an improv exercise for PHONEY”, and at one point when Finn was being particularly useless choosing an outfit for a night out, Charlie genuinely accidentally called him ‘Raphie’ in response!
What are the main themes you aim to explore in "PHONEY"? Is there a particular message you hope the audience takes away?
We want the audience to take away that sex work is more than just ‘good’ and ‘bad’, it is nuanced. Charlie’s experiences showed them that sex work can be both hilarious and horrifying. We also want to show complete humanisation of both trans people, and sex workers. We think it’s also important to bring to light how difficult it is to access HRT as a trans person, both in terms of long NHS waiting lists, the costs of private treatment, and the external pressures from friends, family, and society. Additionally, it was important to us to show the variety of experience in the queer community - neither Raphie or Em are cis, but their respective gender identities and presentations mean they experience the world differently.
What inspired you to create "PHONEY"? Was there a particular event or personal experience that sparked the idea?
The idea for PHONEY was sparked by Finn hearing Charlie talk about their experiences with phone sex work, and thinking about how he would feel doing that work as a trans man. From that, the idea of creating a play about a trans man doing phone sex became very stuck in Finn’s mind, and he sat on the idea for a couple of years before finding the right time, and the perfect co-creator (which of course had to be Charlie!)
Can you tell us more about the characters Raphie and Em? How did you develop their personalities and their dynamic?
We are completely unashamed to say that Raphie and Em are based on our own personalities, and they are absolutely the most exaggerated (and potentially the worst!) versions of ourselves. As Charlie once said: “our friendship is an improv exercise for PHONEY”, and at one point when Finn was being particularly useless choosing an outfit for a night out, Charlie genuinely accidentally called him ‘Raphie’ in response!
What are the main themes you aim to explore in "PHONEY"? Is there a particular message you hope the audience takes away?
We want the audience to take away that sex work is more than just ‘good’ and ‘bad’, it is nuanced. Charlie’s experiences showed them that sex work can be both hilarious and horrifying. We also want to show complete humanisation of both trans people, and sex workers. We think it’s also important to bring to light how difficult it is to access HRT as a trans person, both in terms of long NHS waiting lists, the costs of private treatment, and the external pressures from friends, family, and society. Additionally, it was important to us to show the variety of experience in the queer community - neither Raphie or Em are cis, but their respective gender identities and presentations mean they experience the world differently.
Finn as Raphie The show combines humour with serious topics like gender identity and sex work. How do you balance these elements to ensure both are effectively conveyed?
As a trans person and a former sex worker, we have both experienced the ups and downs of these things being part of our lives, and we wanted to create both light and shade within the piece to reflect this. Although these topics are serious, they do bring joy, laughter, and happiness, - and we were keen not to centre around just the struggles of marginalised groups but to also show what the sometimes hilarious realities can be. Neither Raphie or Em’s lives are one-dimensional, just as ours are not.
What were some of the biggest challenges you faced while creating this show?
Not having any funding has been the biggest challenge, as it’s meant that everything we’ve done has had to either be for free, or come out of our own pockets. However, we think PHONEY is absolutely worth the expense as we believe it is a play everyone needs to see. Doing a play of this nature has also meant we’ve had to have uncomfortable discussions about our own experiences within the context of the play, and so have had to be mindful about each other’s and our own mental health throughout the process.
How have audiences responded to "PHONEY" so far? Have any reactions or feedback surprised you?
As we’re still within rehearsal stages, we are yet to show the full play, but we have had excellent feedback both on the overall concept, and from our script readers. At the original scratch at East 15, PHONEY was a huge success and led to a lot of interest in the play and concept.
For the extended performance with the Q&A, what kinds of questions are you most excited to discuss with the audience?
Finn is excited to discuss the realities of being a trans person trying to access HRT without access to private care. Charlie is also very excited to talk about the real life experiences behind the sex work, as nearly every caller in the show is based around real experience. We decided not to have guests, as there was limited time for the Q&A, and we wanted to ensure we could fully elaborate on our own connections to the piece.
Why did you choose The Bread & Roses Theatre, what attracted you to perform here?
We wanted a piece that has such a visceral connection to us to be performed in an intimate space. We also chose the Bread & Roses Theatre as they work on a profit-share basis with no upfront fees, which is ideal for us as we have no funding - and we are grateful to the Bread & Roses Theatre for running on this business model as it means theatre-making is more accessible.
What are your plans for "PHONEY" after its current run? Do you have any other projects in the pipeline that we should look out for?
We would love for PHONEY to have a longer life, and to hopefully receive funding to put on PHONEY for an extended run. In terms of other projects, Charlie is also working on ‘Trailblazers’ with History Riot at the Tower of London and preparing for their Edinburgh Fringe debut with Missing Rib Collective’s ‘4 girls the first letter e’. Finn is working on ‘The Elves and The Shoemaker’ with Jellyfish Theatre, which tours around libraries and community centres.
PHONEY runs 10 - 14 September 2024: https://app.lineupnow.com/event/phoney
As a trans person and a former sex worker, we have both experienced the ups and downs of these things being part of our lives, and we wanted to create both light and shade within the piece to reflect this. Although these topics are serious, they do bring joy, laughter, and happiness, - and we were keen not to centre around just the struggles of marginalised groups but to also show what the sometimes hilarious realities can be. Neither Raphie or Em’s lives are one-dimensional, just as ours are not.
What were some of the biggest challenges you faced while creating this show?
Not having any funding has been the biggest challenge, as it’s meant that everything we’ve done has had to either be for free, or come out of our own pockets. However, we think PHONEY is absolutely worth the expense as we believe it is a play everyone needs to see. Doing a play of this nature has also meant we’ve had to have uncomfortable discussions about our own experiences within the context of the play, and so have had to be mindful about each other’s and our own mental health throughout the process.
How have audiences responded to "PHONEY" so far? Have any reactions or feedback surprised you?
As we’re still within rehearsal stages, we are yet to show the full play, but we have had excellent feedback both on the overall concept, and from our script readers. At the original scratch at East 15, PHONEY was a huge success and led to a lot of interest in the play and concept.
For the extended performance with the Q&A, what kinds of questions are you most excited to discuss with the audience?
Finn is excited to discuss the realities of being a trans person trying to access HRT without access to private care. Charlie is also very excited to talk about the real life experiences behind the sex work, as nearly every caller in the show is based around real experience. We decided not to have guests, as there was limited time for the Q&A, and we wanted to ensure we could fully elaborate on our own connections to the piece.
Why did you choose The Bread & Roses Theatre, what attracted you to perform here?
We wanted a piece that has such a visceral connection to us to be performed in an intimate space. We also chose the Bread & Roses Theatre as they work on a profit-share basis with no upfront fees, which is ideal for us as we have no funding - and we are grateful to the Bread & Roses Theatre for running on this business model as it means theatre-making is more accessible.
What are your plans for "PHONEY" after its current run? Do you have any other projects in the pipeline that we should look out for?
We would love for PHONEY to have a longer life, and to hopefully receive funding to put on PHONEY for an extended run. In terms of other projects, Charlie is also working on ‘Trailblazers’ with History Riot at the Tower of London and preparing for their Edinburgh Fringe debut with Missing Rib Collective’s ‘4 girls the first letter e’. Finn is working on ‘The Elves and The Shoemaker’ with Jellyfish Theatre, which tours around libraries and community centres.
PHONEY runs 10 - 14 September 2024: https://app.lineupnow.com/event/phoney
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